Props for the Rushmore 103

[TRDutch]

My friend and I both bought '15s around the holidays and we both added the basics (Air, Headers,Mufflers and V&H FR3's)
I know mines a strong runner cause it's just as strong as my former '13 race tuned and cam-ed drag shorty exhaust wide Glide, but my buddy silenced the crowd when he flat out beat (in a full drag race) a fat tire chopper powered by a Carl's Speed Shop 124 cubic nice bike.
If the New FLHXS is your first intro to Harley's, Know that you have a runner
I believe this bike (tuned) will give a CVO (stock) a run

 

[rv7garage]

Nice! Yeah, I am really loving my new 2015; even stock it's got some spank to it. Especially compared to my '02 883R. I can barely wait for my stage 1

 

[Bones]

I've had five Harleys, (and others). Pan 74 ci, Evo, TwinCam 88B, 96ci and now the 103. I have always done stage 1 or more. I have enjoyed the increased power of each, but I am very content with the power of the stock 103. All I have done to it is Rush slipons. Will I go for more power upgrades? I really don't want to spend the money, but first you want the sound, then you want the response, and then you spend the money. Never say never.

 

[BluesBelly]

I've had five Harleys, (and others). Pan 74 ci, Evo, TwinCam 88B, 96ci and now the 103. I have always done stage 1 or more. I have enjoyed the increased power of each, but I am very content with the power of the stock 103. All I have done to it is Rush slipons. Will I go for more power upgrades? I really don't want to spend the money, but first you want the sound, then you want the response, and then you spend the money. Never say never.

Bones,
My bike history is similar to yours. We were building up Harley engines many years before there were such things as "STAGES". Through word of mouth and magazine articles we ascertained what compnents to match together what would work in a particular engine. With the Pans and Shovels we had A and B grind cams and expierimented with the jetting on our S&S carbs. There is no sweeter sound than a well tuned Shovel scavenging through shorty drag pipes. It's too bad many of the younger folks will never hear that sound.
I agree that the new 103 HO is a strong runner out of the box. Like you I was content to leave the bike basically stock. In the end I want more air flow so the bike ran a bit cooler so I added stock CVO mufflers from a 14 or newer CVO Bagger 110 ci which are as high flowing as any aftermarket, including Fullsac, up to about 100 hp but with proper back pressure, a Fuel Moto air intake, and a stage 1 ECM flash. The bike runs very well, sounds great according to the folks I have ridden with, and is in excellent tune with the flash. Most everyone is promoting the use of a tuner but the stage one flash is specific to the bikes vin and the bike runs like a Swiss Watch. It increases F/A mixture through certain ranges but is still EPA compliant, and increases the RPM limit. There can be some deceleration popping (different than backfireing) but this happens only when the throttle is blipped on the downshift if using the engine as a brake. it is natural on a well tuned engine and when the deceleration popping is tuned out of the engine it is actually detuning the engine.
http://wildfirehd.blogspot.com/2011/05/tech-tip-backfiring-or-popping-on.html

Is spending upwards of $1,000 on a tuner and dyno tune necessary for a nice running stage 1. I don't believe so.
So $150 for the FM air intake, $150 -$200 for the MOCO ECM stage 1 flash plus the cost of the mufflers you already have you can have a cooler running, more powerful (HP & TQ) bike that most likely runs as well and in many cases better than a bike that has had alot of money thrown at by owners who "have heard or read some place" that they need all this expensive eqipment.
On an average street bike Dyno numbers mean nothing. Just tells you that you have a couple HP or TQ more or less and usually the only numbers people are interested in are the peak numbers at high RPM that is at or approching RED LINE. As far as AutoTune tuners it would be fun to see how close a completed auto tune map is to an HD ECM flash. Ill just bet there is not much difference. The maps for a Stage 1 ECM flash are available on the internet. The closed loop is in effect from 1200 RPM to 3750RPM (not exact figures but close from memory) so the ECM does automatically compensate a bit for variences in those ranges.

That said, Stage 2 and above, I'm all about buying a tuner and or auto tuner and Dyno time with a good qualified tuner. Money well spent I think!

Anyway, something for everyone!

No offense to anyone for my diatribe.

Ride Safe,

Blues

 

[TRDutch]

Good post BluesBelly,it is about getting the best bang for the buck.
I did the slip on/flash with the Dyna Switch I had before the Street and it was a really nice runner with a decent exhaust note.
The wide Glide, as I mentioned had a little more cash thrown at it Cams HD Race tuner Rinehart Crossback shorties and this did cost some money but the bike was really torquey and fast without digging into the engine and it ran with 110CVOs and It was decorated and painted to my liking
I thought that was good bang for the buck.
The Street Glide on the other hand had a lot of $$ thrown at it already, (custom parts etc) but I wanted that same power that I had with the Wide (what can I say),
So to take advantage of the already cam-ed 103 the V&H headers and FP3 tuner did set me back ($349 for the tuner and another $450 for the headers) but because no Dyno money spent and not a ton more than the flash, I got the added features (auto tune,throttle response setting,rev limit etc etc) and the ability to change air/exhaust combo down the road,
And It has one big exhaust note through the RC 4inch mufflers
I'm very pleased with a bike that has all the bells and whistles of a CVO but it's my own design and less money (unless I change the Paint that is)
But Black is Black and will never go out of style

 

[paul65k]

I agree with you BB with one exception............with the FP3 available for ~$300 on-line and the installation taking literally 5 minutes why are people still doing stage 1 downloads for only $100 less???

With the FP3 you can do everything that the stage 1 does, not to mention the auto tune function with is by definition more precise than a standard download, and then what happens if you want to make ANY changes to your set-up in the future with the FP3 you simply change the map for no cost vs. doing another download.

I know, I know most people doing the download will NEVER change anything on their bike and are perfectly happy with the stage 1 (not arguing that it works), but like everything, things change and so do many folks' idea of what their bike should look like, sound like and perform like..........especially if something comes along in a year or 2 not even available today that would be "Just perfect" on your bike???

I'm not taking a shot here BB this is not necessarily aimed at you but every time I see a post on here taking about a Stage 1 download for $200 - 220 I scratch my head........Just Sayin'

 

[BluesBelly]

I agree with you BB with one exception............with the FP3 available for ~$300 on-line and the installation taking literally 5 minutes why are people still doing stage 1 downloads for only $100 less???

With the FP3 you can do everything that the stage 1 does, not to mention the auto tune function with is by definition more precise than a standard download, and then what happens if you want to make ANY changes to your set-up in the future with the FP3 you simply change the map for no cost vs. doing another download.

I know, I know most people doing the download will NEVER change anything on their bike and are perfectly happy with the stage 1 (not arguing that it works), but like everything, things change and so do many folks' idea of what their bike should look like, sound like and perform like..........especially if something comes along in a year or 2 not even available today that would be "Just perfect" on your bike???

I'm not taking a shot here BB this is not necessarily aimed at you but every time I see a post on here taking about a Stage 1 download for $200 - 220 I scratch my head........Just Sayin'

Paul,
Excellent reply and all good points to ponder for conversation. Thank you for chiming in. I was hoping to get a little back and forth of opinions because I know that there are many questions reguarding tuners and the need for them especially from folks that are somewhat new to the Harley experience so I figured a little chat from more experienced riders might address some of their concerns. To this end I stirred the pot a bit.

There is no doubt that tuners, in particular the FP3, have a place in the world of performance Harley modifications and I agree with your assessment of price comparision and ease of installation. The prevelent option of tuning future modifications looms large and is a definate factor to consider in the choice between tuner and HD flash.

Older guys like Bones and I have been down the modification road too many times but we have had a blast doing it all. So for retired guys like us that know for sure that we are not going to throw a bunch of money at an already strong running bike the HD stage one flash is ideal. Could also work for folks on a tight budget or younger guys with families that are just glad to have a bike and any money invested is creature comfort and safety oriented.

If I was a younger man you might be reading my posted dyno charts in this forum (I still have some from my last EVO and it was a strong runner) but I am content with my brand new 2014 $200 CVO take off muffs, Under the radar high flow Fuel Moto air intake, stage one flash, and the modest increase in performance. I also want to spend zero time test riding and filling maps and such. I just want to ride.

It's great to live in a day and age that there are so many options available for the HD enthusiast and its great to live in country that allows us to chat fearlessly about the pros and cons of such options. Hopefully our civil exchage can benefit other forum readers.

Best,

Blues

 

[paul65k]

Paul,
Excellent reply and all good points to ponder for conversation. Thank you for chiming in. I was hoping to get a little back and forth of opinions because I know that there are many questions reguarding tuners and the need for them especially from folks that are somewhat new to the Harley experience so I figured a little chat from more experienced riders might address some of their concerns. To this end I stirred the pot a bit.

There is no doubt that tuners, in particular the FP3, have a place in the world of performance Harley modifications and I agree with your assessment of price comparision and ease of installation. The prevelent option of tuning future modifications looms large and is a definate factor to consider in the choice between tuner and HD flash.

Older guys like Bones and I have been down the modification road too many times but we have had a blast doing it all. So for retired guys like us that know for sure that we are not going to throw a bunch of money at an already strong running bike the HD stage one flash is ideal. Could also work for folks on a tight budget or younger guys with families that are just glad to have a bike and any money invested is creature comfort and safety oriented.

If I was a younger man you might be reading my posted dyno charts in this forum (I still have some from my last EVO and it was a strong runner) but I am content with my brand new 2014 $200 CVO take off muffs, Under the radar high flow Fuel Moto air intake, stage one flash, and the modest increase in performance. I also want to spend zero time test riding and filling maps and such. I just want to ride.

It's great to live in a day and age that there are so many options available for the HD enthusiast and its great to live in country that allows us to chat fearlessly about the pros and cons of such options. Hopefully our civil exchage can benefit other forum readers.

Best,

Blues

I completely agree with you on the civility of exchange(s) here.....which in no small way is why I'm here so much and on other "Harley Forums" so little

I have been down this path quite a number of time myself with 4 different Harleys starting with EVO motors and specifically on my last bike with what was in 2003 called a "Stage 4" tune I went with the flash vs. a "Race Tuner".......unfortunately after a number of years I did change out the pipes and reworked the heads and low and behold the flash just wasn't making it so after all those years I bought a race tuner, or would have paid for another flash......while I'm old and Semi-retired as well I just know me well enough to know that I can NEVER leave well enough alone hence the extra $100 on the tuner.

PS....as far as the auto-tune, nothing other than just riding is required, tell it to start learning and it will keep learning until you tell it to stop.....in the mean time you have the equivalent of the Stage 1 download running your system....all the auto tune does is try to emulate the fine tuning adjustments that were in the past reserved for the dyno and an expert tuner...............not saying that auto tune with an FP3 is the same as a dyno tune with an expert......but then again I'm not saying that it isn't either

Cheers!