Wide Band 02 Sensor

[farva2191]

Something just crossed my mind, Since the Stock narrow band sensors can't keep up with Mods on a Harley, Wouldnt installing Wide bands allow the ECM to make the proper adjustments thus eliminating the need for any kind of fuel management? Because from what i understand the ECM closed loop system is always making adjustments from feedback of the 02's?


Thanks, Farva
#geauxtigers

 

[RoadWarrior]

No. The analog input from the sensors are different. A narrow band sensor typically operates from 0 - 1v. Very low resolution. Wide band sensors operate at 0 - 5v. The ECM has to be built utilize the higher resolution analog signal.

It's probably not so much that the narrow band sensors can't keep up as HD just creating another revenue stream (HP fuel tuner). They could just as easily make the stock ECM programmable, then all you would need after an upgrade is to have the dealer flash the ECM.

 

[farva2191]

I see, i was thinking it might use a 4-20mA signal and a flash would need to be done, Regardless the price they charge to reflash an ECM is obscured

 

[Spazz]

Another option for wide bands.... Target Tune! Looks like this is the route I will be going since I called Jamie at Fuel Moto.

Target Tune is a module add-on in addition to the PV tuner that takes your specific map and aids the ECM in understanding and interpreting the widebands via the PV for a realtime tune as you ride.

I am not going to get details, but that's the barbones of it..... just giving you alternatives that are fairly new on the market and working well.

Call Jamie Long or Bob Menning at Fuel Moto for a better explanation/understanding....

This is where I'm going for my 120ST....

 

[Mojo]

Spazz is right, Jaimie and the guys at Fuel Moto are THE experts on this stuff.

 

[Gunner]

I think they brought the Target Tune out to compete with the ThunderMax system.

 

[Spazz]

I think they brought the Target Tune out to compete with the ThunderMax system.

Not sure why, but Thundermax replaces your factory ECM completely... and yeah, it's a great unit...

I'm 99% sold on PV and Target Tune from Fuel Moto right now.... Jamie and Bob really informed me on them and I like it.

Sent from Note4

 

[Gunner]

In time more units will go to wide band. You just need 18mm bungs in the head pipes. Mine worked out great as it had 18mm.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Power Commander has an auto tune module for the PC-V that comes with wide band sensors. I already have the PC-V tuner, so that how I'm going. I figure the auto tuner costs about the same as a ride on the Dyno. It's a no brainer.

 

[speed4tu]

I have the pv now and have been considering the wideband upgrade. I had a thundermax on my last bike and it worked flawlessly. Wanted to stick with the stock ecu for now on this one tho. The thundermax kinda threw my miles left calculator for a loop. Was an 05 Vrod


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[Fluffy]

I also have the PV on my bike now and love all the features of this tuner as it is now and the basic auto tuner works pretty good as is. But now that Dynojet just came out with the Wideband Target tune add on upgrade I know I will be adding this to my wish list.

 

[farva2191]

so Thundermax seems to be on the top shelf when it comes to "tuners" even tho its a whole new ECM, Why go with PV and Target Tune when Thundermax is cheaper compared to PV+Target Tune??

 

[Spazz]

so Thundermax seems to be on the top shelf when it comes to "tuners" even tho its a whole new ECM, Why go with PV and Target Tune when Thundermax is cheaper compared to PV+Target Tune??

Actually.. its a bit cheaper.. I got my PV + TT at a discounted bundle pkg price from FM. I am very happy with it thus far. Once you set it all up, the TT is a stand alone module and I don't need my PV hooked up for the TT to function... even though I keep my PV hooked up for monitoring. Plus I can datalog, then download the logs if I see any issues and use WinPV on my PC for corrections and analyzing.

 

[hulkss]

so Thundermax seems to be on the top shelf when it comes to "tuners" even tho its a whole new ECM, Why go with PV and Target Tune when Thundermax is cheaper compared to PV+Target Tune??

I took a quick look at the T-max web sight and found out that it is a simple Alpha-N system. The only sensor that is used for determination of fueling is the Throttle Position Sensor. Alpha-N is rarely used as the primary strategy for engine management today. Alpha-N is poor at dealing with changes in engine load, temperature variations, altitude changes, and just about anything else except close to wide open throttle where it does ok.

The Delphi ECM on the bike is a speed density system that uses a manifold air pressure + temperature signal with engine speed to control the air/fuel ratio target. This allows the engine to respond much better to different loading and environmental conditions.

 

[Spazz]

I took a quick look at the T-max web sight and found out that it is a simple Alpha-N system. The only sensor that is used for determination of fueling is the Throttle Position Sensor. Alpha-N is rarely used as the primary strategy for engine management today. Alpha-N is poor at dealing with changes in engine load, temperature variations, altitude changes, and just about anything else except close to wide open throttle where it does ok.

The Delphi ECM on the bike is a speed density system that uses a manifold air pressure + temperature signal with engine speed to control the air/fuel ratio target. This allows the engine to respond much better to different loading and environmental conditions.

Great info Hulkss... as always

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