EFI tuners?

[Jordan1200]

I'm wanting some information on EFI tuners for my 2010 96 in streetglide. I own a Screamin Eagle Pro race tuner the orange one but have not married it to the bike yet out of fear that it may void my ESP. This has led me to examine different EFI tuners like the Dynojet Power Vision or the Vance and Hines fuelpak fp3. I'm not sure which way to go I was going to be looking at stage 1 Screamin Eagle slip-ons and exhaust maybe decanting the head pipe and eventually a cam upgrade.

Between the three I would like some advice on using them or which one I should stick to I do like the fact that the fp3 is Bluetooth and doesn't have any wires but I am also concerned that I only can go to Vance & Hines for maps for those of you that have used any of the above some advice would be greatly appreciated.
Fuel Moto has a decent sale on the power Vision currently so I am being swayed in that direction but for all the things I mentioned previously I'm still not decided which way to go.

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[hulkss]

Anything except an H-D street tuner may void your ESP. Might as well use the tuner you have. It's a good one.

 

[Jordan1200]

Well I sold the SE tuner to a friend and bought a street tuner to be safe on my ESP for now. I spent a lot on the ESP and don't want issues with it.
I am about to install my SE night stick 80881-10 on my factory 2into 1 header along with SE Air cleaner 29260-08.
My question is this, inside both race tuner software packages Pro and street there is a setting under the fuel to set it to 10% ethenol. When selected it changes the AFR to low 14's if memory serves me.
In my mind, wouldn't that be a preferred setting with or without the presence of ethenol?
Isn't running a bit richer that 14.6 better for power and keeping the engine cool?
There are many gas stations that run up to 10% ethanol and you never know where you will have to get gas in the road. You often won't have the luxury of being picky a bout fuel on the road.

Are there any consolation to selecting this option and what is recommended?

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[hulkss]

That setting only changes the displayed data on your computer screen. It does nothing to the bike. The bike automatically corrects the AFR with ethanol present. The sensors in the exhaust are Lambda sensors. They measure the ratio of actual AFR to stoichiometry. The fueling needed for a stoichiometric mixture changes with ethanol added. In this way the bike corrects automatically.

 

[Jordan1200]

That setting only changes the displayed data on your computer screen. It does nothing to the bike. The bike automatically corrects the AFR with ethanol present. The sensors in the exhaust are Lambda sensors. They measure the ratio of actual AFR to stoichiometry. The fueling needed for a stoichiometric mixture changes with ethanol added. In this way the bike corrects automatically.

Ok good explanation thanks. .
Is there a way to connect the street tuner and not flash a tune but modify my stock flash?
I notice that in the help videos it talks about the original tune you can revert to.

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[hulkss]

The stock tuning files are in the H-D database provided with the software. Basically, the only meaningful thing you can modify are the volumetric efficiency (VE) tables. These apply any time the bike is running open loop and is not using the lambda sensors. This happens whenever you are accelerating quickly or applying a lot of throttle. Follow the online training and update the VE tables.

If you do nothing, the bike will adapt over a few hundred miles but not as good as when you update the VE tables.

 

[Jordan1200]

The stock tuning files are in the H-D database provided with the software. Basically, the only meaningful thing you can modify are the volumetric efficiency (VE) tables. These apply any time the bike is running open loop and is not using the lambda sensors. This happens whenever you are accelerating quickly or applying a lot of throttle. Follow the online training and update the VE tables.

If you do nothing, the bike will adapt over a few hundred miles but not as good as when you update the VE tables.

"The stock tuning files are in the H-D database"
How can I find and identify the one to my 2010 SG?

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[hulkss]

The tuner will automatically save the stock file from your bike when it pairs to it.

Here's a file with just an air cleaner change:

 

[Jordan1200]

Yes that is the only stage 1 for my bike. The street tuner doesn't have an air cleaner and se slip-on for the 96"
If there is one I couldn't find it.
I wonder if there is one?

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[hulkss]

The same file shows up with performance exhaust selected.

 

[Jordan1200]

The same file shows up with performance exhaust selected.

View attachment 15163

Yep,
I wonder if this is because the SE dur cleaner listed in the flash stated EPA legal when installed with the factory exhaust? So if that's true it wouldn't be part of the flash... I believe there are flashes in the tuner with both the air cleaner and exhaust so I am confused..

From the 2010 SE catalogue below.
The air cleaner I have (yet to install is 29260-08).

I installed the Night Stick slip-on 80881-10 listed below, last night. Went for a short ride with the stock flash still intact, didn't seem to feel as crisp as when I had the stock slip-on installed. Interesting how the 50 state EPA legal slip-on doesn't state in the catalogue OR the install instructions the a re-calabration is required..

ScreamIn’ Eagle Stage I aIr cleaner KIt – twin cam models* Kit features a one-piece cast back plate with integral breather and mounting brackets for simplified installation, and a “state of the art” synthetic media washable air cleaner element that does not require oiling. if you want more torque from your Twin Cam-equipped model, this kit provides a freer breathing capability to pump-up the power of your EFi-equipped motorcycle. This kit includes air cleaner, breather, and all required hardware. Street legal when used with stock mufflers. all EFi-equipped models require ECM calibration* (priced separately). *Re-calibration is required for proper installation, and will allow engine to rev to 6200 rpm. See dealer for details. Labor cost not included.

29260-08 Fits ’08-later Touring and Trike models with Original Equipment 50mm Throttle Body. ’08-later CVO models require separate purchase of air Cleaner Cover P/n 29121-07.*

Muffler I have listed below.

ScreamIn’ Eagle NIght Stick 2-Into-1 Slip-on muffler 2 maximize the performance of your 2-into-1 exhaust equipped 2010 Street Glide or Road Glide model. Designed for easy installation on the Original Equipment header pipe and muffler hanger, this long and lean muffler provides the right combination of air flow and back pressure to boost the performance and sound quality of your bike. EPa stamped, this muffler is 50-state street-legal on stock displacement engines.

80881-10 Fits 50-state ’10 FLHX and FLTRX models with Original Equipment 2-into-1 exhaust. installation requires separate purchase of muffler Clamp P/n 65296-95a.

If you think about it, this is an EPA compliant tuner so adding exhaust maybe beyond EPA

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[BluesBelly]

Jordan,
It's important to note that the engine camshaft dictates the amount air-fuel mixture allowed into the engine while the ECM dictates the consistency of the A-F mixture a given rpm.
The air cleaner elements on the newer bikes (generally 2014 and up) are somewhat more free flowing and designed to work well within the parameters of the stock OEM camshafts. These stock OEM elements are only restrictive at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) so under normal driving conditions and lower rpms a performance air cleaner element does virtually nothing to enhance performance. Adding a high flow air filter element allows air to enter faster, and in some cases smoother, at WOT and as a result more air entering the throttle body needs to be mixed with more fuel. This is where a tuner or HD Dealer ECM flash is required.
NOW, the caveat to all of this air intake information is this: The camshaft will only allow the valves to open and close at its given specified duration and lift capabilities. The stock OEM air filters are designed to work well up to the point of highest rpm that the OEM cam can operate efficiently before it begins to fall off and lose power which is about the same point that a high performance free flowing air filter element begins really work best.
So adding a high flow air filter to a bike equipped with stock camshaft with appropriate ECM flash will generate a bit more power when used in conjunction with a free flowing exhaust with correct back pressure. Adding a free flowing exhaust does not really affect the ECM A-F mix because it is an event that happens after the engine has processed the mixed fuel according to the specifications of the camshaft and engine timing which have not changed beyond their set parameters. The advantage of a free flowing exhaust is to remove any unnecessary obstruction that quiets (read EPA) the exhaust and subsequently restricts exhaust air flow.
So a stage ONE upgrade with free flowing mufflers and a performance air cleaner with ECM flash is mildly beneficial although the ECM will self adjust after several hundred miles. If I remember correctly the ECM can self adjust to plus or minus 6%.

 

[Jordan1200]

Jordan,
It's important to note that the engine camshaft dictates the amount air-fuel mixture allowed into the engine while the ECM dictates the consistency of the A-F mixture a given rpm.
The air cleaner elements on the newer bikes (generally 2014 and up) are somewhat more free flowing and designed to work well within the parameters of the stock OEM camshafts. These stock OEM elements are only restrictive at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) so under normal driving conditions and lower rpms a performance air cleaner element does virtually nothing to enhance performance. Adding a high flow air filter element allows air to enter faster, and in some cases smoother, at WOT and as a result more air entering the throttle body needs to be mixed with more fuel. This is where a tuner or HD Dealer ECM flash is required.
NOW, the caveat to all of this air intake information is this: The camshaft will only allow the valves to open and close at its given specified duration and lift capabilities. The stock OEM air filters are designed to work well up to the point of highest rpm that the OEM cam can operate efficiently before it begins to fall off and lose power which is about the same point that a high performance free flowing air filter element begins really work best.
So adding a high flow air filter to a bike equipped with stock camshaft with appropriate ECM flash will generate a bit more power when used in conjunction with a free flowing exhaust with correct back pressure. Adding a free flowing exhaust does not really affect the ECM A-F mix because it is an event that happens after the engine has processed the mixed fuel according to the specifications of the camshaft and engine timing which have not changed beyond their set parameters. The advantage of a free flowing exhaust is to remove any unnecessary obstruction that quiets (read EPA) the exhaust and subsequently restricts exhaust air flow.
So a stage ONE upgrade with free flowing mufflers and a performance air cleaner with ECM flash is mildly beneficial although the ECM will self adjust after several hundred miles. If I remember correctly the ECM can self adjust to plus or minus 6%.

Very good information, I guess the million dollar question is, would adding the 50 state street legal AC and slip-on require more than 6% adjustment?
If not, is the street tuner really required for just an AC, just a slip-on or a combination of the two?
The SE air cleaner I gave does have a k&n filter.
Where is you get the 6% adjustment information?

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[hulkss]

The ECM can adjust more than 6% but it is not changing the VE tables or the fueling table. It is adding "fuel trimming" to the VE table but only for closed loop operation at AFR's close to stoichiometric. For transient response and heavy throttle you need to road or dyno tune the bike with the tuner.

If you want the best, add the H-D Smart Tune PRO Automatic Tuning Module. It works with your tuner and it uses wide band O2 sensors that can measure the rich Air/Fuel ratio required with a lot of throttle.

 

[Jordan1200]

The ECM can adjust more than 6% but it is not changing the VE tables or the fueling table. It is adding "fuel trimming" to the VE table but only for closed loop operation at AFR's close to stoichiometric. For transient response and heavy throttle you need to road or dyno tune the bike with the tuner.

If you want the best, add the H-D Smart Tune PRO Automatic Tuning Module. It works with your tuner and it uses wide band O2 sensors that can measure the rich Air/Fuel ratio required with a lot of throttle.

Thanks hulkss

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[Jordan1200]

I think I am just worried now because the street tune file doesn't have any indication of being used with the slip-on muffler. Unlike the super tuner I just sold that did have it as part of the tune file.
I had a friend tell me after an HD flash at a dealer his bike ran like crap and he had to get a dyno tune to fix it.
I understand I will have to do a bit of tweaking but want it to run decent enough that i can fine tune as I want to and not have to in order for it to run reasonably.
Probably just getting paranoid now.

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