Spark, Fuel, or other?
- Thread starter yegg
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Spark, Fuel, or other?
Arghhhhhhh!!!!!
Half way there. Runs but spews oil (white smoke - lots) from the exhaust for the front cylinder.
Testing to commence tomorrow....maybe.
Edit: Update
Compression test is good. Same on both cylinders.
Leak down test failed. Heard steady air from from exhaust pipe (true duals).
Could something have jarred loose from firing her up?
Happy Easter.
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Arghhhhhhh!!!!!
Half way there. Runs but spews oil (white smoke - lots) from the exhaust for the front cylinder.
Testing to commence tomorrow....maybe.
Edit: Update
Compression test is good. Same on both cylinders.
Leak down test failed. Heard steady air from from exhaust pipe (true duals).
Could something have jarred loose from firing her up?
Happy Easter.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited:
More fun I see.....
Did you put new seals on the valve stems? You have to slide them on with a condom like protector over the valve stem else the retainer grooves in the stem may cut and damage the seal (just a little of plastic food wrap works).
It is possible to install the umbrella vent valves in the heads up-side-down (don't ask how I know). This will cause oil to be in all the wrong places. Make sure a small amount of air is coming out the vent from each head when the engine is running. The gaskets on the rocker boxes can also be installed in a way to block the engine vents.
If the cranking compression test is good you can run it. The valve may bed into the seat and seal itself with some running.
Did you run the flex hone in both cylinders or just the now good one?
Once in awhile someone will torque a rocker arm support screw into the head with oil in the screw hole. The resulting hydraulic pressure then cracks the cylinder head.
Did you put new seals on the valve stems? You have to slide them on with a condom like protector over the valve stem else the retainer grooves in the stem may cut and damage the seal (just a little of plastic food wrap works).
It is possible to install the umbrella vent valves in the heads up-side-down (don't ask how I know). This will cause oil to be in all the wrong places. Make sure a small amount of air is coming out the vent from each head when the engine is running. The gaskets on the rocker boxes can also be installed in a way to block the engine vents.
If the cranking compression test is good you can run it. The valve may bed into the seat and seal itself with some running.
Did you run the flex hone in both cylinders or just the now good one?
Once in awhile someone will torque a rocker arm support screw into the head with oil in the screw hole. The resulting hydraulic pressure then cracks the cylinder head.
Hulkss,
Yes, I installed new valve seals.
I am 99.9% sure the umbrella vent valve is installed correctly. It is smooth on top and has a protrusion that sits through the hole in the filter it sits on. That is how I remember it.
I assume the rocker box gasket you are referring to is the one that sits between the rocker box and the cylinder head. For some odd reason I recall double checking that before placing the rocker box base back on. So that should be ok.
I definitely like the idea that the valve may bed itself into the seat with some running. I find it hard to accept based on the amount of white smoke coming from my bike. It reminded me of the old Adam West Bat Mobile. Yeah, that bad.
I only flex honed the now good cylinder. But both cylinders were measured (0.001 out of round) and got new rings.
As for cracking the head, I did that prior with a breather bolt on the rear cylinder. Yes, there was oil in the blind hole and proved the theory of hydraulic pressure. I may have even posted about that. I now install that screw with a liberal amount of Permatex Copper and it seals just fine.
To be on the safe side I plan on ordering the following tomorrow morning: intake valve, exhaust valve, 2 valve seals, head gasket, rocker box base gasket, and rocker box top gasket. I want to have those things ready to go just in case.
If it is a valve seal I guess I did not seat it correctly or I may have ripped/tore it installing it. I am getting new valves since it worked so well on the rear cylinder. On the rear cylinder I only installed a new exhaust valve and I hand lapped it a bit prior to installation. And of course the damn gaskets are one time use so I need new ones of those.
I am just really puzzled why I had great results from the leak down test prior to firing the bike. Could something have come loose? Could gaskets installed incorrectly cause this complete lack of pressure?
I may be able to start the tear down tomorrow. I will keep everyone up to date.
Yes, I installed new valve seals.
I am 99.9% sure the umbrella vent valve is installed correctly. It is smooth on top and has a protrusion that sits through the hole in the filter it sits on. That is how I remember it.
I assume the rocker box gasket you are referring to is the one that sits between the rocker box and the cylinder head. For some odd reason I recall double checking that before placing the rocker box base back on. So that should be ok.
I definitely like the idea that the valve may bed itself into the seat with some running. I find it hard to accept based on the amount of white smoke coming from my bike. It reminded me of the old Adam West Bat Mobile. Yeah, that bad.
I only flex honed the now good cylinder. But both cylinders were measured (0.001 out of round) and got new rings.
As for cracking the head, I did that prior with a breather bolt on the rear cylinder. Yes, there was oil in the blind hole and proved the theory of hydraulic pressure. I may have even posted about that. I now install that screw with a liberal amount of Permatex Copper and it seals just fine.
To be on the safe side I plan on ordering the following tomorrow morning: intake valve, exhaust valve, 2 valve seals, head gasket, rocker box base gasket, and rocker box top gasket. I want to have those things ready to go just in case.
If it is a valve seal I guess I did not seat it correctly or I may have ripped/tore it installing it. I am getting new valves since it worked so well on the rear cylinder. On the rear cylinder I only installed a new exhaust valve and I hand lapped it a bit prior to installation. And of course the damn gaskets are one time use so I need new ones of those.
I am just really puzzled why I had great results from the leak down test prior to firing the bike. Could something have come loose? Could gaskets installed incorrectly cause this complete lack of pressure?
I may be able to start the tear down tomorrow. I will keep everyone up to date.
Latest update:
I’ve got everything pulled down now. It looks like I installed my top compression ring upside down. It is my understanding that in that scenario my oil is being scraped up into the combustion chamber rather than down and back into the crank case. The second compression ring had no markings and no bevel so it is my understanding that there is no up or down for that one. Does this information sound correct?
I also said eff it and have 2 new valves and valve seals coming in that I will go ahead and replace because I am sick of this project.
Tomorrow or the next day I will take this cylinder in to work and hit it with the flex ball hone too.
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I’ve got everything pulled down now. It looks like I installed my top compression ring upside down. It is my understanding that in that scenario my oil is being scraped up into the combustion chamber rather than down and back into the crank case. The second compression ring had no markings and no bevel so it is my understanding that there is no up or down for that one. Does this information sound correct?
I also said eff it and have 2 new valves and valve seals coming in that I will go ahead and replace because I am sick of this project.
Tomorrow or the next day I will take this cylinder in to work and hit it with the flex ball hone too.
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To have the trouble you are having, something is wrong with the multi-piece oil scraper ring set in the bottom ring groove of the piston.
https://university.fuelmotousa.com/article/installing-piston-rings/
https://university.fuelmotousa.com/article/installing-piston-rings/
Just double checked end gaps and found a problem with the oil control ring. The manual also calls it an expansion ring. I wish they stayed consistent with nomenclature. Oh well. Anyway, my oil control ring has NO expansion. It will not sit in the cylinder under pressure in order to measure it. It simply falls through the cylinder.
This has been quite an education.
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This has been quite an education.
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All back together and still some smoke. Mostly it is coming from around the head pipe at the cylinder head. I am hoping that will burn off as I realized I did not replace the now oil soaked Vance and Hines exhaust gasket. This gasket is the flat ring type and not the stock flimsy tapered aluminum(?) one that makes me cuss and throw wrenches. Rather than have a complete meltdown I’m going to button her all up and rider her a bit and see if that smoke goes away.
I did a leak down test once the head was installed and all was good. I guess I should do the testing again too. I should also just pull the front cylinder’s exhaust and replace that gasket but I just don’t want to.
Any comments or thoughts?
Thanks
P.S. I hope everyone is entertained by this as I am certainly not.
P.P.S. I now know why people just replace parts rather than try and repair/renew existing parts. Swapping parts is so much easier. But I’ve still saved a ton of money (I think).
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I did a leak down test once the head was installed and all was good. I guess I should do the testing again too. I should also just pull the front cylinder’s exhaust and replace that gasket but I just don’t want to.
Any comments or thoughts?
Thanks
P.S. I hope everyone is entertained by this as I am certainly not.
P.P.S. I now know why people just replace parts rather than try and repair/renew existing parts. Swapping parts is so much easier. But I’ve still saved a ton of money (I think).
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I always use the tapered exhaust gaskets. They are easy to install with the Jims tool and they seal well. They are destroyed when you remove them from the cylinder head.
Exhaust gasket tool
No problem running/burning the oily gasket if it seals.
Exhaust gasket tool
No problem running/burning the oily gasket if it seals.
Spark, Fuel, or other?
This morning I noticed oil on the floor to the side of the bike just in front of the rear tire. There is quite a bit of oil that spewed out and followed the pipe down towards the rear from the head. In other words, under the heat shield. I am seeing some wet seepage come from under the exhaust flange but only when revving the bike. I think I’m going to pull the front cylinder’s exhaust, clean it, put in a new gasket, and take a peek in the exhaust port itself. I cleaned the hell out of the cylinder with contact cleaner before reassembly so I shouldn’t see anything slick in there. I hope.
A friend of mine says he would just ride it and see if everything dries up and burns off. Thoughts?
You can see the seepage below on the right of the flange.
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This morning I noticed oil on the floor to the side of the bike just in front of the rear tire. There is quite a bit of oil that spewed out and followed the pipe down towards the rear from the head. In other words, under the heat shield. I am seeing some wet seepage come from under the exhaust flange but only when revving the bike. I think I’m going to pull the front cylinder’s exhaust, clean it, put in a new gasket, and take a peek in the exhaust port itself. I cleaned the hell out of the cylinder with contact cleaner before reassembly so I shouldn’t see anything slick in there. I hope.
A friend of mine says he would just ride it and see if everything dries up and burns off. Thoughts?
You can see the seepage below on the right of the flange.
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Last edited:
Rode the bike to work today. No noticeable smoke at all from the cylinder head or the exhaust pipe. However when I got to work I saw there was oil spray on the right side of the bike from the top of the front cylinder head to the saddle bag. It seemed especially amassed on top of the cam chest and the throttle body was rather well coated.
Since just under the top fin on the right side front cylinder is “wet” I think my next course of action is to pull the exhaust and check out the port. Before reassembly I cleaned it again so there really shouldn’t be any oily residue in there. While I’m at it I’m going to go ahead and replace the gasket. Aside from that, any ideas where to look?
The positive is that the bike ran great. I am truly amazed at the difference from how it was. It almost seems like the bike used to lug about. Maybe I’m just imagining it.
I didn’t put my new lower fairings on in case I need to do more exploratory surgery. Man did I miss them. When I finally put them on I’ll do a separate post about them. I made a switch from Advan Black to Hog Workz.
Thanks
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Since just under the top fin on the right side front cylinder is “wet” I think my next course of action is to pull the exhaust and check out the port. Before reassembly I cleaned it again so there really shouldn’t be any oily residue in there. While I’m at it I’m going to go ahead and replace the gasket. Aside from that, any ideas where to look?
The positive is that the bike ran great. I am truly amazed at the difference from how it was. It almost seems like the bike used to lug about. Maybe I’m just imagining it.
I didn’t put my new lower fairings on in case I need to do more exploratory surgery. Man did I miss them. When I finally put them on I’ll do a separate post about them. I made a switch from Advan Black to Hog Workz.
Thanks
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I’ve been thinking of the push rod tubes but how would the vent bolts be leaking? By the way, I have vent bolts that go to a catch can. I have them routed up to the backbone and then back to the catch can next to the ABS module.
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