Stage 2 103" with fp3 hesitation from stop after warm up

[petejoe43]

My 103" stage 2 is a catless, 2.5" Jones full boar pipes with an S&S air intake, and Andrews 57H cams installed. Running the fp3 and have finished 2 auto tune runs after V&H sent me a tune based on my cam specs. Shortly after the tune I started getting this annoying hesitation from a stop after warmup. It's really on my nerves at this point. I'm having to feather the clutch from a stop to prevent the delay. Has anyone experienced a similar problem? Should I keep going with the auto tunes? Seems to me the fp3 would have corrected this problem on the first run after an apply. Any help would be awesome!

 

[Mojo]

Peterjoe43- You mentioned doing Auto tunes, just checking here- you did download them to your ECM afterward didn't you? Just checking to make sure, I added the FP3 to my M8 and at first did not do the extra step.

 

[petejoe43]

Yes sir, I applied, then finished. I've only made 2 auto tune runs at around 75 miles each. Wondering if that was enough. The hesitation is on my nerves bad.......

 

[Mojo]

Yes sir, I applied, then finished. I've only made 2 auto tune runs at around 75 miles each. Wondering if that was enough. The hesitation is on my nerves bad.......

Quick test; Reload the original tune file and see if the hesitation goes away.
Also did you do anything else or make any mods when you added the FP3 such as new A/C?

Lastly- Review the FP3 thread(s) here started way back when by Spazz.

 

[TomA]

75 miles is not enough for the auto tune if your trying to fill the blocks properly. I think my first auto tune was about 3000 miles and I was starting to loose blocks as they learned. you have to remember it's all about throttle position and RPM so you can fill most of the blocks without getting into 4th gear.

 

[hulkss]

Auto tune may not address the transient issue you have with acceleration off idle. V&H may need to fix this for you in the base tuning file.

 

[shaochieh.young]

I hope you will get it sorted that was the reason I bought another tuner PV. I got the map from S&S and the bike finally ran properly.


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[petejoe43]

Yeah, I should have done more homework on the fp3. The fact that it's one VIN and done is a good business model for V&H, but not such a good model for customers. I've called the local dyno guy.....$750 for a PV license and a dyno tune. Wishing I had done that to start with. I'm happy with the 2500-5000 rpm range. But I'll wear out a clutch with this sluggish takeoff after warmup.
I'm going to reach out to V&H tomorrow......since I've finished the auto tune to their map, I guess I'll need another fresh map to try again. I give V&H an A for effort, they've tried. I just don't see how a tuner in California can properly tune a bike 2,000 miles away based on part specs.

 

[petejoe43]

Quick test; Reload the original tune file and see if the hesitation goes away.
Also did you do anything else or make any mods when you added the FP3 such as new A/C?

Lastly- Review the FP3 thread(s) here started way back when by Spazz.

Great idea....however, I've finished the learned cells of the auto tune to the V&H custom tune they sent me.......did I say that right? Can you undo an auto tune if you don't have a back up of the original?

Let's say I decide to take the bike in for the PV license/dyno run. Should I flash the factory map back to the ECM? Give the tuner a blank slate so to speak......

 

[shaochieh.young]

One more thing you could try is put the throttle setting to standard during auto tuning on FP3.


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[Spazz]

Didn't see this thread til AFTER you PM'd me.... figured I would paste my response from the PM to shed some light on this for others:

"Where is the Throttle Progressivity set within the FP3? hmmmm

This sounds somewhat familiar to me... little story of one of my Brother's sleds with the FP3

15 Limited....103 stock motor stage 1 intake, powerduals and V/H high outputs. Throttle progressiveness was set to 'aggressive' and ran GREAT! ABout 10k on bike and cams went south on him... so TW555's went in with a bunch of new parts all under warranty.

The dealer is run by a VERY close friend of the Club, so when they got finished, they called me to 'tune' it since noone there had experience with the FP3. I reset all the variable for his new TW555's and ran it. EVERTHING was perfect EXCEPT the hesitation off the line as you describe! We took the AT route as you did for a few hundred miles, targeting each area of the map each time. Still the hesitation was there.

I remembered his 'agressive' setting on the throttle in the FP3 and put it back to 'normal' and ran AT again for another round of targeting each area.... guess what? No more hesitation!

I have to assume that with the throttle set to anything other that NORMAL or STOCK doesn't allow a 'good learning experience' for the FP3. After the AT was done and no hesitation was noticed, we reset the throttle back to aggressive and still no hesitation.... so... it worked!

This is the only experience I have had with hesitation and the FP3 and I hope that this is the case for you.... I can only hope that your Throttle Setting in the FP3 is not in the normal setting and setting it to normal and running the AT again will solve your problem."


Spazz

 

[Mojo]

Great info Spazz. Although I do not have any hesitation I am still in Auto tune mode on mine with Throttle Progressivity set to moderate. I'll reset it to normal and try that with AT for awhile. Just in case the aggressive setting DOES affect AT.

 

[Spazz]

Great info Spazz. Although I do not have any hesitation I am still in Auto tune mode on mine with Throttle Progressivity set to moderate. I'll reset it to normal and try that with AT for awhile. Just in case the aggressive setting DOES affect AT.

The cams are the big difference for both of the hesitation issues from what I can assume.... FYI I never had issues with hesitation on stock cams when tuning with the FP3... only one with cams was the 15 Limited and hesitation issues

 

[petejoe43]

The cams are the big difference for both of the hesitation issues from what I can assume.... FYI I never had issues with hesitation on stock cams when tuning with the FP3... only one with cams was the 15 Limited and hesitation issues

Any thoughts on why the hesitation from a stop? I've set the throttle back to normal, and started another auto tune from the modded base Cheyne at V&H uploaded to my VIN. Before I invest almost $800 in a PV dyno tune I'm going to give it another go. I'm looking at MANY settings within the tune. Lot's of adjustability with this tuner. I'm sure an educated tuner could look at my tune and have an "Ah Ha" moment. Unfortunately, I'm not that guy. The way my luck goes, I'll make some changes and end up with a MUCH worse situation. I'm going to try another tank with A/T and see where I am. I'll follow up with progress.......thanks Spazz, Mojo, Shao, HulkSS, Tom, and everyone who's pitched in on this. Hopefully this will be the answer.......going out for a ride, so we'll see.........

 

[petejoe43]

The cams are the big difference for both of the hesitation issues from what I can assume.... FYI I never had issues with hesitation on stock cams when tuning with the FP3... only one with cams was the 15 Limited and hesitation issues

Okay, went for a ride with only change being the progressivity set back to normal.....hesitation gone! I was really concerned about tuning with the fp3 and cams. I can say that the mid-upper rpm's are spot on. No regrets going to the cam upgrade. Woke the 103" up in a HUGE way. I am due a couple of tanks of gas in auto-tune mode. But for now I couldn't be happier! Thanks Spazz..........

 

[Spazz]

Okay, went for a ride with only change being the progressivity set back to normal.....hesitation gone! I was really concerned about tuning with the fp3 and cams. I can say that the mid-upper rpm's are spot on. No regrets going to the cam upgrade. Woke the 103" up in a HUGE way. I am due a couple of tanks of gas in auto-tune mode. But for now I couldn't be happier! Thanks Spazz..........

Ok... if you only changed the progressivity... did you run another AT? I would recommend it if you haven't. The variables will change a bit and run better in normal mode. Once that is complete... reset to aggressive and you should be set

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[Mojo]

Okay, went for a ride with only change being the progressivity set back to normal.....hesitation gone! I was really concerned about tuning with the fp3 and cams. I can say that the mid-upper rpm's are spot on. No regrets going to the cam upgrade. Woke the 103" up in a HUGE way. I am due a couple of tanks of gas in auto-tune mode. But for now I couldn't be happier! Thanks Spazz..........

I love a story with a happy ending!!!!!

 

[petejoe43]

Ok... if you only changed the progressivity... did you run another AT? I would recommend it if you haven't. The variables will change a bit and run better in normal mode. Once that is complete... reset to aggressive and you should be set

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Honestly, I can't tell a huge difference in throttle progressivity settings. However, I haven't gone over to the "race" setting. I do need another couple of tanks in A/T. I'm a little rich, which is a longer warmup, but I'd rather be here than lean. Can the tune get better? Most definitely. I'm smiling ear to ear after getting rid of the hesitation. I'll eventually play around with the AFR table in low rpm's, because it could be better. As for the cam upgrade, it made my 103" a real beast. Matter of fact, it's a different bike now. My current AFR's in low-mid rpm's "2000-3500" are 14.1.......
I guess our goal is to be 100% stoich. I don't think I'm getting 100% fuel burn across the board, so there is tweaking to be done........

 

[hulkss]

I recommend the normal setting for the throttle. Race mode is in your wrist - just twist.

 

[petejoe43]

Yeah, playing around with progressivity sounds cool, but to me it has no real world application. I could see it on a track, but on state roads not so much. Overall I'm impressed with the ability of the fp3. I'm guessing sooner or later tuners will learn to dyno tune using the fp3. There's no reason not to......